Here’s a public birth of an immersive-testing school concept that had been developing in me for quite a number of years – the first part is more social ambience where the 2nd & 3rd parts get into the real childbirthing:
Without further ado: this is me, Joe Valentyn – “<lakitu>” – in a philosophy forum working thru my idea for edification, not education, thru “immersive testing” in schools:
{12:57:25 pm} <lauraaah> I’m so fed up with covid
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{13:34:11 pm} <fattratt_> Ok, we can talk about Murphy’s law and Betteridge’s law in the abstract.
{13:35:35 pm} <fattratt_> Betteridge’s law: “Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.”
{13:36:14 pm} <fattratt_> Murphy’s law: “Anything that can go wrong will go wrong”
{13:39:34 pm} <fattratt_> I’m not fed up with covid. Indeed I am still rather covid-obsessed.
{13:46:09 pm} <lakitu> hey lauraaah. recognize you from the other week ☺ welcome.
{13:46:15 pm} <lakitu> hey fattratt
{13:46:24 pm} * lakitu just has a little time to chat
{13:48:19 pm} <lakitu> (mm, new-coffeemaker coffee.)
{13:49:13 pm} <lauraaah> Hi :)
{13:50:17 pm} <lakitu> =D
{13:50:33 pm} <lakitu> great to have a new chatter around here (who isn’t a troll!)
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{13:50:53 pm} <fattratt_> I like to discuss covid while eating kale salad.
{13:51:07 pm} <lakitu> so, welcome.
{13:51:33 pm} <lakitu> (aw yeah! my coffeemaker counts as a espressomaker. ex coffeehouse patron/worker here)
{13:51:58 pm} <lakitu> (acquired the taste for espresso, & the ‘like. =D)
{13:52:48 pm} <lauraaah> I don’t like coffee
{13:52:50 pm} <lauraaah> Or tea
{13:53:01 pm} <lakitu> really?
{13:53:10 pm} <lakitu> are you straight-edge?!
{13:53:17 pm} <lakitu> – or is that too personal?
{13:53:28 pm} <lakitu> maybe that’s too personal…
{13:54:51 pm} <lakitu> I was having no psychoactives except for chocolate – but solidarity with people led me to pick up coffee again.
{13:56:07 pm} <lauraaah> I just don’t like the taste
{13:56:11 pm} <lakitu> ah.
{13:56:40 pm} <lakitu> works for me.
{13:56:59 pm} <lakitu> (your not liking their taste.)
{13:57:16 pm} <lauraaah> I like the smell of coffee tho
{13:57:48 pm} <lakitu> for me who does, this Moka pot makes very tasty espresso/coffee.
{13:59:25 pm} <LionClan> I set up a coffee house in Broad Ripple, it was quite an experience
{13:59:44 pm} <lakitu> yeah – you said that. Turtle something?
{14:00:47 pm} <LionClan> Turtle Island from a book of poems by Gary Snyder
{14:02:14 pm} <LionClan> Across the street from Karma Records, best record shop from the age of vinyl.
{14:02:16 pm} <lakitu> I remembered the name.
{14:02:44 pm} <ControlFreq> Hello Friends!
{14:02:56 pm} <LionClan> CF
{14:02:59 pm} <lakitu> hey Freq
{14:03:01 pm} <ControlFreq> Hello LionClan!
{14:03:05 pm} <ControlFreq> Hello lakitu!
{14:03:09 pm} <lakitu> a popular record store around here just closed.
{14:03:57 pm} * fattratt_ sips beeer
{14:04:26 pm} <lakitu> a few of my friends work at record stores. they tell me e.g. Record Store Day is coming up – in a week I think
{14:04:34 pm} <lakitu> a little less
{14:04:38 pm} <lakitu> I think it’s the 12th.
{14:04:49 pm} <LionClan> When we were running Radio Free Naptown, Karma would send us a crate of Records every week, if we’d just tell them what we like
{14:05:17 pm} <lakitu> in/near Indianapolis– right?
{14:06:10 pm} <LionClan> Are commune included several electrical engineers, more brains than your average underground radio
{14:06:47 pm} <LionClan> do you remember Nixon
{14:07:44 pm} <LionClan> When he was around anti-war messages were banned from the radio, and the FBI track down anti-war and anti-draft protesters
{14:08:59 pm} <LionClan> The same Authority they used to do that, is still being used to infiltrate protests.
{14:09:18 pm} <LionClan> So I’m not sure anything is changed
{14:10:45 pm} <LionClan> In radio, the talent and the salesmen go to completely different parties.
{14:11:00 pm} <LionClan> We’re not the same species, or some such
{14:11:34 pm} <lakitu> I’m more interested in well-roundedness, than just bRAINz these days. ‘like I was saying about schools not evaluating you for people skills, & creativity, vs. math/reading/etc.
{14:12:58 pm} <lakitu> I’m abstaining from politics LionClan. you’re free to discuss your political ideas obviously, but I’m just not party.
{14:13:41 pm} <LionClan> You asked, if you want shorter stories just say so
{14:14:01 pm} <lakitu> ha
{14:14:47 pm} <lakitu> I asked if “Radio Free Naptown” was in/near Indianapolis.
{14:15:17 pm} <LionClan> Where is Radio free naptown was a popular question for a while
{14:15:41 pm} <LionClan> Is very hard to tell, like impossible, because we are clever
{14:16:04 pm} <LionClan> Their best estimate, was in a tall building downtown
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{14:16:55 pm} <LionClan> We weren’t broadcasting FM, we were broadcasting shortwave.
{14:17:33 pm} <LionClan> The repeater picked up the short wave and rebroadcast it FM. From a tall building downtown.
{14:19:00 pm} <LionClan> Our intent was broadcasting to the Northern third of the townships in Indianapolis, and the many wealthy people north of there
{14:21:04 pm} <lakitu> & you were a DJ on this, you’ve told us.
{14:21:21 pm} <LionClan> We sampled coffee beans from all over the world, concluded everyone had tropical Mountain grown Arabica on their top five list
{14:21:48 pm} <LionClan> There were several DJs, some of them are still working as DJs
{14:23:23 pm} <LionClan> We had a similar sampler of hashes from all over the world, and each of them has their charms.
{14:23:28 pm} <lakitu> IRC– Undernet– is a little similar to a pirate radio station
{14:23:46 pm} <lakitu> altho it’s legal
{14:23:51 pm} <lakitu> IRC – Undernet.
{14:24:04 pm} <lakitu> but public communications.
{14:24:21 pm} <lakitu> of course this is DJing of the fittest
{14:25:01 pm} <lakitu> orate well & people will (hopefully) tune in.
{14:25:33 pm} <lakitu> except that IRC has been decimated, not least after what happened to the last major network.
{14:26:18 pm} <lauraaah> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/E5CImyxK/bitmoji-20180504091451.png
{14:26:38 pm} <lakitu> ok…
{14:27:42 pm} <LionClan> The Ku Klux Klan took power in American politics in the 1920s and held on to it for 40 years
{14:27:52 pm} <lakitu> nice having you here.
{14:28:52 pm} <lauraaah> Slightly early for bed. I want some chicken chicken mein first
{14:31:44 pm} <lakitu> me, I’m putting down my first espresso shots & going to try to choreograph a whole day, here.
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{14:32:47 pm} <lakitu> but not literally choreograph =D since we just met I’ll make it clear haha
{14:33:06 pm} <LionClan> Rancilio, the Italian cappuccino maker made espresso so fast it was already brewed before the oils got moving
{14:33:32 pm} <guerro> hi LionClan
{14:34:10 pm} <LionClan> No oils meant no acid, so we drink it chilled by the quart
{14:34:21 pm} <LionClan> hi g
{14:35:28 pm} <lakitu> I hung out with some coffee enthusiasts – coffeeshop owners, burr grinder designers, on #freenode, & they recommended a Gaggia brand machine for home espresso, if you’re serious enough about it
{14:36:49 pm} <lakitu> burr-grinder designers.
{14:36:56 pm} <lakitu> (*)
{14:39:07 pm} <lakitu> they said the grinder was more important, surprisingly.
{14:39:17 pm} <lakitu> getting at least a burr grinder…
{14:39:36 pm} <lakitu> freenode*
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{14:43:24 pm} <LionClan> It should be finely ground yes
{14:45:31 pm} <lakitu> but for example, you could write symphonies in school, & still get all F’s. or be the people’s choice for most personable dudette in your school, & not have your report card needle even move at all
{14:45:49 pm} <lakitu> for scoring, overall
{14:47:08 pm} <lakitu> you could defend against bullies for special needs kids, the disadvantaged – you might even be WORSE OFF report-card -wise.
{14:48:36 pm} * lakitu was going to school to be a teacher, but dropped out of college for it…
{14:50:20 pm} <lakitu> might be a Love genius, they could give you straight C’s. that’s four examples
{14:54:16 pm} <lakitu> & on that – say you had a “goodness” / being ethical / being moral / etc score: Conscientiousness’s spiritual battle is more like physical education in that you have to actually perform these pull-ups, push-ups, etc – you can’t just tick a box that says “I know to do 10.”
{14:55:28 pm} <lakitu> you have to perform at being good rather than just in a made up example be able to navigate to the right answer. it takes courage to resist bad influence, etc….
{14:59:18 pm} <lakitu> like the differencce between ticking a box that says “Write beautiful music.” & writing beautiful music. it takes more than just knowing to do it. actually doing it requires gifts & techniques beyond average ability levels.
{14:59:29 pm} <lakitu> beyond the average level of abilities.
{14:59:58 pm} <lakitu> ‘like the difference.*
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{15:05:54 pm} <lakitu> this is a little b****y of me to recommend, but imagine a school that had drills, except you didn’t know they were drills: e.g. someone has broke in; war has broke out; there was a chemical spill nearby – etc – again, pushing beyond the boundaries here, but: imagine that even teachers weren’t told yet whether it was real or not, & they had a emerge
{15:05:54 pm} <lakitu> ncy discussion with their class – the brave would be separated from the unbrave, the just from the unjust, etc –
{15:06:42 pm} <lakitu> & that could tell us– we’d tell them we were testing them afterward– who is really made of mettle.
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{15:16:52 pm} <LionClan> When I was growing up they had nuclear attack drills
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{15:17:09 pm} <lakitu> right – but did you know it was a drill, LionClan?
{15:18:01 pm} <LionClan> Incentive courses to put the idea into your head, you imagined nuclear war whether you thought this was it or not
{15:18:12 pm} <lakitu> ok, so they told you it was real.
{15:18:33 pm} <lakitu> ‘We’re having a fire drill today, I think at 2:45.’
{15:18:41 pm} <LionClan> Well you know very well they were telling us the threat was real
{15:18:42 pm} <lakitu> those are standard now.
{15:18:46 pm} <lakitu> haha
{15:18:58 pm} <lakitu> – haha
{15:19:26 pm} <LionClan> The modern version of that is the box cutter Arabs are going to get you, we’re supposed to believe that’s a threat
{15:20:16 pm} <ControlFreq> The biggest threat to the national security of the United States flies under the Confederate battle flag.
{15:21:05 pm} <LionClan> 1925 the Ku Klux Klan March from the capitol to the White House with hundreds of Confederate battle Flags
{15:21:29 pm} <lakitu> I’m talking about drills where you don’t reveal they’re real or not – a test, a…
{15:22:13 pm} <lakitu> an immersive test.
{15:22:23 pm} <lakitu> an immersion.
{15:22:32 pm} <lakitu> or immersive test.
{15:22:33 pm} <LionClan> The Confederate Battle Flag is a symbol of the Ku Klux Klan oh, not a symbol of the Confederacy
{15:23:18 pm} <LionClan> In the Confederacy the Battle Flag was used as a shroud for Fallen Soldiers
{15:24:21 pm} <ControlFreq> I do not see it as a racist symbol. I see it as a symbol of traitorous, treasonous bastards who rose up in arms against the lawful government of the United States. I took an oath to protect that government, and I do not like those who embrace its symbol.
{15:24:28 pm} <LionClan> If you’re wavering one of those around you’re supporting the Klan, which are murderous conspirators
{15:25:44 pm} <ControlFreq> When did the state legislatures in the South start flying the Confederate battle flag from thier state capitols?
{15:27:25 pm} * lakitu is resting his political loins; you do what you should.
{15:27:32 pm} <lakitu> –politically.
{15:27:44 pm} <LionClan> Let’s focus on the history of the Confederate Battle Flag in Washington DC. Confederate States of America never waved a Confederate Battle Flag in Washington DC, the Ku Klux Klan has waved thousands of Confederate battle Flags in Washington DC
{15:28:24 pm} <LionClan> In Washington DC, the Confederate Battle Flag is a symbol of the Ku Klux Klan.
{15:29:02 pm} <ControlFreq> The Confederate battle flag became a symbol of White supremacy on June 2, 1964. About a half dozen state legislatures hoist that from from their capitols the day LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act
{15:29:48 pm} <LionClan> The Ku Klux Klan marched hundreds of Confederate battle Flags down Pennsylvania Avenue from the capitol to the White House in 1925
{15:30:57 pm} <LionClan> You cannot distance the Confederate Battle Flag from racism in Washington DC that’s not possible.
{15:31:38 pm} <lakitu> to continue: gradually students would realize they are already immersed in several live, real-world crises that are just farther away, slow-drip leaked thru the media, or otherwise outside of their field of experience, that they could take up the causes of & try to battle in the name of.
{15:32:02 pm} <ControlFreq> I assign both values of the one symbol to anyone who embraces it. Treason and racism
{15:32:20 pm} <LionClan> Yes
{15:32:31 pm} <lakitu> yes to who LionClan?
{15:33:17 pm} <LionClan> That’s meta
{15:33:31 pm} <lakitu> ha
{15:33:40 pm} <lakitu> I take it you’re repsonding to Freq
{15:34:19 pm} <lakitu> – e.g. human trafficking
{15:36:21 pm} <ControlFreq> I think human trafficking is to broad a brush. There needs to be daylight between people who spend their life savings and beg to be smuggled somewhere and people who are kidnapped and transported for labor or sexual slavery.
{15:36:43 pm} <lakitu> sex slavery.
{15:36:49 pm} <lakitu> e.g..
{15:37:24 pm} <lakitu> is what I was going to continue with.
{15:37:32 pm} <ControlFreq> Please do
{15:37:40 pm} <lakitu> ((thanks.))
{15:45:13 pm} <lakitu> there are abducted women, teen girls, around, even in your state, who must have brave, just men & women taking up arms & technologies to free them – risking ourselves for investigations, for searches, even in firefights – to free them from their living nightmare they can’t escape, alone, or haven’t been able to yet – yet we’re shrouded from this re
{15:45:13 pm} <lakitu> ality; this immersive testing would be like smelling salts to awaken us to the fact that our tranquil peace can be upended by emergency – & there are people at most any given time suffering from one such emergency or another.
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{15:45:51 pm} <lakitu> people who could use our help, directly or indirectly.
{15:46:09 pm} <lakitu> but in a very real, not-just-text-in-a-Twitter.com-post way.
{15:46:41 pm} <lakitu> “BIO 302’s been shot!” that is not something you easily forget
{15:46:57 pm} <lakitu> depending on where you take the potential scenarios there.
{15:53:55 pm} <lakitu> as a limiting threshold, there is only so vigilant we ought to be in this Life; but I think it would be good to have a public dialogue on how vigilant we should be re the problems the world collectively – as communities – as groups, as families – as individuals – wrangle with at any one time. it is important to hear from people who have suffered, w
{15:53:55 pm} <lakitu> ho are suffering, to have a full circumspect perspective, for this.
{15:57:31 pm} <ControlFreq> lakitu…the solution is not for the hoi polloi to arm themselves and lead a rescue. The solution is to coordinate with law enforcement and find out what we can do to make a difference.
{15:58:02 pm} <ControlFreq> The idea of vigilante justice grants that same authority to anyone else who believes they have a righteous cause. C.f. January 6
{15:58:10 pm} <lakitu> well that’s what I was expressing above – to join forcces to– no
{15:58:27 pm} <lakitu> I was not advocating that. I was saying to work e.g. with law enforcement,
{15:58:37 pm} <lakitu> to rescue sex slaves.
{15:58:53 pm} <lakitu> to rescue these people.
{15:59:06 pm} <lakitu> applying for a job, etc.
{15:59:22 pm} <ControlFreq> Please distinguish this statement from advocacy of vigilante justice:
{15:59:25 pm} <ControlFreq> brave, just men & women taking up arms & technologies to free them
{15:59:36 pm} <lakitu> there was a context to that
{15:59:42 pm} <lakitu> a very large context
{16:00:03 pm} <lakitu> that’s a sentence fragment
{16:00:57 pm} <ControlFreq> It’s inflamatory
{16:01:24 pm} <lakitu> you actually are countering the countering of this, now – I was thinking of the Federal Bureau of Investigations as I wrote that
{16:01:33 pm} <lakitu> the Central Intelligence Agency
{16:01:49 pm} <ControlFreq> CIA cannot engage in domestic law enforcement
{16:01:51 pm} <lakitu> & you are now calling joining the F.B.I. to rescue e.g. sex slaves “inflammatory”
{16:01:57 pm} <lakitu> I didn’t say domestic
{16:02:16 pm} <lakitu> I am not snared in that technicality
{16:02:37 pm} <lakitu> Interpol.
{16:02:57 pm} <ControlFreq> lakitu…you frequently fall into the trap of using words that codify a clear, well-formed thought, but the words you choose convey a totally different inference in the listner’s mind.
{16:03:37 pm} <lakitu> I guess you have complaints about the above, first?
{16:04:27 pm} <ControlFreq> If you trying to recruit law enforcement, that’s great. I am a skilled critical reader and that was not in the same ZIP code as the impression I formed in my mind.
{16:04:49 pm} <lakitu> mm. how’d you score in your reading skills in school?
{16:06:08 pm} <ControlFreq> I did not attend kindergarten. In the first weeks of first grade, I was evaluated as a third grade reader. Both my parents were teachers (Mom, elementary; Dad, jr high and high school.) My Dad was trained by Jesuits.
{16:06:17 pm} <lakitu> for anyone else who thought I’m taking special measures in schools to sensitize kids to e.g. human trafficking, to put them into a pipeline to primitive vigilantism / vigalante justice,
{16:07:14 pm} <lakitu> ok. in elementary school I was appraised as being a 14th-grade level reader / overall comprehension student
{16:08:31 pm} <lakitu> — I of course would be thinking of our best methods to rescue abducted teenage girls, especially when I’m talking about educational formalization of this kind of training.
{16:08:44 pm} <lakitu> especially when I’m talking about educational formalization like this.
{16:08:48 pm} <lakitu> (‘like this.)
{16:09:30 pm} <lakitu> (–I of course.*)
{16:10:00 pm} <lakitu> overall-comprehension.*
{16:10:34 pm} <lakitu> to inspire them to join the F.B.I., et al, ControlFreq.
{16:10:49 pm} <ControlFreq> That is a noble effort.
{16:10:54 pm} <lakitu> I’m sorry if there was a miscommunication otherwise.
{16:11:35 pm} <lakitu> I will also not limit how you can help
{16:12:51 pm} <lakitu> in that miscommunication, we cannot be reactionary & rule out printing up flyers, teaching classes, making websites, or any other helpful approaches that are outside of the F.B.I., say – or that work with, etc.
{16:14:27 pm} <lakitu> II will say here ‘that work with’.
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{16:19:58 pm} <lakitu> but in that statement I was meaning situation rooms of F.B.I. workers tracking down abduction victims’ holding places & making busts, etc
{16:21:04 pm} <lakitu> (the statement that sentence fragment is in.)
{16:21:15 pm} <ControlFreq> You do not want to work “outside the FBI.” You want to work in concert with federal, state and local law enforcement in ALL cases.
{16:21:27 pm} <lakitu> Freq: what am I doing now?
{16:21:43 pm} <lakitu> is the above idea generating bad?
{16:21:50 pm} <lakitu> – I do not think so. many do not, I bet.
{16:22:12 pm} <lakitu> if you teach a class on sex slavery in the world–
{16:22:35 pm} <lakitu> there are too many examples against to require me to give more.
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{16:24:45 pm} <lakitu> maybe you could criticize – in some scenario – the F.B.I. for not doing ENOUGH— again, in some scenario– in your class, conceivably; that is not an impossible combination of conditions.
{16:26:04 pm} <lakitu> it’s not a major point – you thought I– for whatever reason– was talking about something other than F.B.I., et al, arms & technologies, when I explained to you that is who I had in mind as I was writing that.
{16:30:56 pm} <lakitu> that was just a miscommunication between us.
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{16:34:40 pm} <lakitu> you could also do ‘immersive testing’ for slower moving disasters, ‘like say environmental pollution. you could create a pretext to tell them– say, anecdotally mention during a teaching module– that some local company (who’s maybe in on it) is dumping stuff in the river, we’re not sure what it is, but it shouldn’t be a problem. more money to make
{16:34:40 pm} <lakitu> more (textiles or whatever) anyway, right?
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{16:36:05 pm} <lakitu> “it should be fine.”
{16:36:35 pm} <lakitu> wb Sioux.
{16:37:33 pm} <lakitu> to someone who would say this is messing with their minds, it is to edify them, which is an even higher cause than education, I would say.
{16:37:57 pm} <lakitu> which is an even higher cause than to educate them.
{16:38:38 pm} <lakitu> of course, nothing in excess. Solon.
{16:38:58 pm} <LionClan> How many times do you suppose the FBI has been used to do dirty tricks for the president?
{16:39:19 pm} <lakitu> “dirty tricks” – wow.
{16:39:37 pm} <xControlFreq> Hoover used the FBI to wreck Kennedy
{16:39:38 pm} <LionClan> See I know about dirty tricks personally
{16:39:57 pm} <lakitu> Lion – I’m just saying that’s helluva topic.
{16:40:10 pm} <lakitu> that’s a helluva topic.
{16:40:59 pm} <lakitu> the sum subterfuge of the F.B.i. for the Presidential administrations.
{16:41:13 pm} <lakitu> or sum subterfuges.
{16:42:25 pm} <LionClan> The FBI infiltrates protests
{16:42:55 pm} <LionClan> The CIA infiltrates protests as well
{16:43:32 pm} <lakitu> F.B.I., I was writing.
{16:43:42 pm} <SiouxBricket> Apparently, China has infiltrated both the CIA and th FBI, so nobody talks to them anymore
{16:43:57 pm} <LionClan> FBI infiltrates when they want to prosecute protesters, the CIA infiltrates when they want to discredit protesters
{16:45:40 pm} <lakitu> I’m on leave from politics as a genre of culture, SiouxBricket; you are free to discuss it however best tho
{16:46:38 pm} <lakitu> as a field.
{16:47:30 pm} <LionClan> A popular theme Here is not not jokes
{16:48:01 pm} <SiouxBricket> And it seems that both California and Nevada have run out of water.
{16:50:11 pm} <LionClan> If you think the absence of a thing is a sort of thing then that would be a substantial conversation. If you aren’t that deluded you would see clearly that “not politics” is not a topic, and just as clearly that “not physics” is also not a topic, and people that suggest either have made no contribution at all.
{16:51:37 pm} <LionClan> California and Nevada have been mining water, pumping water out of the ground faster than it accumulates.
{16:51:39 pm} <lakitu> …re my thread: you could issue these semi-strength beguilements to them, once you had gotten down the proper training method to train teachers to use on students with: “I’m gonna have to report you.”, to a student saying he’s going to stand up to it, speak up against it – “Don’t make me dock your grades for insubordination.” etc
{16:52:16 pm} <lakitu> to challenge them
{16:52:26 pm} <lakitu> – test them.
{16:53:45 pm} <lakitu> see who’s willing to stick their neck out for someone, some people.
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{17:00:25 pm} <lakitu> SiouxBricket: http://texthost.joevalentyn.org/paste.php?id=38 immersion in real-world but fictional emergencies, disasters, etc, as tests for young men & women in schools’ dialogue
{17:00:27 pm} <zhan> Part of “Immersive-Testing” Formal-School Idea by Joe Valentyn (lakitu) –
{17:00:37 pm} * Bu||Fr0g croaks
{17:01:04 pm} <lakitu> went on about it for the first time above
{17:01:18 pm} <lakitu> grabbed the scroll, if you want it
{17:12:13 pm} <lakitu> that was from a just a coupla minutes ago.
{17:18:15 pm} <lakitu> …you could even extend this further, to work settings: testing who would have the spiritual marrow to speak up.
{17:19:44 pm} <lakitu> could be used to see who was conscientiousness enough to get a promotion – with the increase in their authority, including their responsibility, accountability, maybe even culpability.
{17:20:25 pm} <lakitu> honeypots. etc.
{17:21:09 pm} <lakitu> –depending on how you felt about ‘sting operations’ that is – but there’s other ways you could do it short of full traps / setups.
{17:27:00 pm} <lakitu> …there is a conversation device used by, say, women, to (try, anyway, to) suss out men’s guilt – they joke about something she suspects the man of being guilty of – if he’s not guilty, it shouldn’t be much of a problem: he can joke back or otherwise aver his innocence, or if he is guilty, it can be a very economical litmus test. I would say *due
{17:27:00 pm} <lakitu> to the complexity of how a man can be smeared, etc*, this is not a certain test, but better women can probably come to terms with the plight or plights of men re where it would screw them up, & come to terms a lot / lots, such that in skilled enough hands, many women do put this joking/baiting test to good use.
{17:28:32 pm} <lakitu> women stay on top of men, in relationships largely, it seems. men have more bruteness, some might say have more bravery too– but this is where I am too close to an misandrist to propose my ideas as a model. I will just say that women stay on top of men, in relationships, it seems most often to me
{17:28:43 pm} <lakitu> (as a man– I say this as a man.)
{17:28:59 pm} <lakitu> men tend to be stupider, more brutish, clumsier
{17:29:15 pm} <lakitu> when it comes to social life, at the very least.
{17:29:16 pm} * ControlFreq hands lakitu a slightly narrower brush
{17:29:38 pm} * lakitu dots the “i” in social life with it.
{17:29:47 pm} * lakitu dots the “i” in “social life” with it.
{17:30:28 pm} <lakitu> when it comes to romance & social life, at the very least.*
{17:31:52 pm} <lakitu> & less conservative.
{17:32:06 pm} <lakitu> (in the philosophical sense of conservative.)
{17:32:20 pm} <lakitu> ((not (necessarily) political.))
{17:36:06 pm} <lakitu> I am too close to a misandrist.*
To be honest, this idea was too fun, & I’d Love to come back to it soon – & I plan to do just that, designing more examples & strategems teachers could use to put students’ big hearts to the test with how “big” they truly are . . .
⸻ Joe Valentyn
Minnesota, U.S.A.
June the 7th, 2021
More on this, from June the 8th (2021):
{11:41:37 am} <lakitu> new dialogue uppp: https://joevalentyn.org/press/2021/06/07/that-was-big-of-you-joe-valentyns-idea-for-student-immersion-in-real-world-emergency-testing-of-mettle-conscientiousness-in-classrooms/
{11:41:41 am} <zhan> “That Was Big Of You!!” ⸻ Joe Valentyn’s Idea For Student Immersion in Real-World Emergency Testing of Mettle & Conscientiousness In Classrooms ⸻ ♡, Joe Valentyn
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{13:39:59 pm} <fattratt_> https://youtu.be/K2SudsbW_2M
{13:39:59 pm} <zhan> Censorship of medical information and intellectual authoritarianism (Pierre Kory & Bret Weinstein) by DarkHorse Podcast Clips [16m36s – 7k views ? 1.3k ? 3 (99.77%) – 1h ago]
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{14:17:56 pm} <lakitu> probably the simplest example of my idea (in the dialogue I linked for you ladies & girls above) is to leave a wallet in the halls, or outside in front of the school, with enough money in it to make it somewhat tempting to keep & not return. even a twenty-dollar bill say in the halls, would work.
{14:24:33 pm} <lakitu> …a really good one would be to arrange some link, or something, where (I’m thinking in high school, or higher) ‘a very popular girl’s sexted picture’ has been acquired, except that it hasn’t–
{14:25:10 pm} <lakitu> & because it’s not with her permission,
{14:25:42 pm} <lakitu> it would be like a honeypot for this immersive mettle, conscientiousness testing I am proposing.
{14:27:36 pm} <lakitu> (mettle & conscientiousness immersion tests.)
{14:29:06 pm} <lakitu> you could reimagine it a few ways. e.g. there was a party, she got drunk, someone took a “hot!!”, violatory picture of her
{14:35:01 pm} <lakitu> (for anyone not familiar with “honeypots” – the espionage term: from Kaspersky.com: “One honeypot definition comes from the world of espionage, where Mata Hari-style spies who use a romantic relationship as a way to steal secrets are described as setting a ‘honey trap’ or ‘honeypot’. Often, an enemy spy is compromised by a honey trap and then forced to hand over everything he/she knows.
{14:35:01 pm} <lakitu> In computer security terms, a cyber honeypot works in a similar way, baiting a trap for hackers. It’s a sacrificial computer system that’s intended to attract cyberattacks, like a decoy. It mimics a target for hackers, and uses their intrusion attempts to gain information about cybercriminals and the way they are operating or to distract them from other targets.”)
{14:36:19 pm} <fattratt_> Old trick.
{14:36:25 pm} <lakitu> old trick.
{14:36:51 pm} <fattratt_> Biblical story of Judith I think.
{14:37:28 pm} <fattratt_> And Verdi’s Aida perhaps.
{14:37:40 pm} <fattratt_> But I forget the details of both of those stories.
{14:42:19 pm} <lakitu> I mentioned doing this at work, but definitely a parent or maybe daycare provider could use this for edification, too
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{14:47:16 pm} <fattratt_> shalom
{14:47:55 pm} <lakitu> (- I obviously am not saying this is the only way to edify us, it is just a rather b****y way whose experience of immersion could lead to high-level performance performance & testing, than say 1-3 lines on an exam sheet. like a sport can require more performance, in physical education. so would this, but in Life, in conscientiousness, in mettle, etc.)
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{14:51:29 pm} <lakitu> (* – I obviously am not saying this is the only way to edify us, it is just a rather b****y way whose experience of immersion could lead to high-level performance & testing, than say 1-3 lines on an exam sheet. like a sport can require more performance, in physical education. so would this, but in Life, in conscientiousness, in mettle, etc.)
{15:02:20 pm} <lakitu> You could confabulate a false rumor about a young female teacher that she had had some compromising sexual experience (or drug, or whatever), & see who spreads it before authoritatively announcing it was an act to see who would spread a false rumor
{15:07:10 pm} <lakitu> …to be honest, you could do such a thing with your faculty too – the same sort of thing.
{15:07:16 pm} <lakitu> re doing this as a business.
{15:08:53 pm} <lakitu> – ‘ see what the rumor becomes on the wrong end of the telephone game.
{15:11:58 pm} <lakitu> – “she had sex with two students & there’s pictures!” it could become– & again, you’d need to issue a longlasting authoritative capstone denial, maybe with some kind of documentation beforehand outlining that it’s just a rumor, we’re doing this to test you, etc., that students could check out after & see, oh, so & so knew about this beforehand, there was documenting that this was a honeypot beforehand, etc
{15:12:32 pm} <lakitu> you could even hire a special teacher maybe to do this
{15:12:45 pm} <fattratt_> good night & may your dog walk with you !!!!!
{15:12:50 pm} <lakitu> lol
{15:15:31 pm} <lakitu> like a double teacher, who acts like a new, naive, young, perhaps attractive enough female teacher, but who is trained to overcome such a rumor setup – in on it with faculty, & the ‘like.
{15:16:34 pm} <lakitu> nighty-night fattratt.
{15:17:08 pm} <lakitu> ‘like a double teacher*
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{15:33:33 pm} <lakitu> you could do like a 15-30 minute gymnasium presentation – “”Mrs. Fields” is actually Robin Addleson; we hired her specifically to conduct this setup where we confabulate a false, embarrassing, damaging rumor about her to see who spreads the rumor even tho’ they can’t’ve known it to be true” etc
{15:34:42 pm} <lakitu> ((“since it’s false”, etc))
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{15:36:00 pm} <lakitu> uh oh
{15:36:30 pm} <JohnGuru> hi lakitu
{15:36:46 pm} <JohnGuru> don’t worry I’m not here to spoil your day
{15:36:51 pm} <lakitu> I’ll move this to my room
{In a different chatroom:}
{15:37:10 pm} <lakitu> continued:
{15:39:53 pm} <lakitu> …you could even push the envelope & say email a junior-high’ teacher a bait email fake offering revealing photos of say a female student – perhaps personalize it to them – but have it *really be from the junior high administration or task force dedicated to this*
{15:42:08 pm} <lakitu> “Mr. Anderson!! I wanted to show YOU my new bikini shots!! take a quick peek…” – supposedly from a 14 year-old girl to her junior-high’ teacher – but really a sort of phishing test by the administration.
{Back in the first ‘room:}
[15:28:38] <lakitu> wb Sioux.
[15:28:44] <lakitu> {15:37:10 pm} <lakitu> continued:
[15:28:44] <lakitu> {15:39:53 pm} <lakitu> …you could even push the envelope & say email a junior-high’ teacher a bait email fake offering revealing photos of say a female student – perhaps personalize it to them – but have it really be from the junior high administration or task force dedicated to this
[15:28:44] <lakitu> {15:42:08 pm} <lakitu> “Mr. Anderson!! I wanted to show YOU my new bikini shots!! take a quick peek…” – supposedly from a 14 year-old girl to her junior-high’ teacher – but really a sort of phishing test by the administration.
[15:31:39] <lakitu> that as the subject of the email.
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[15:46:22] <lakitu> back –some young woman is private messaging me with an urge to Snapchat with me . . .
[15:46:49] <lakitu> she’s fairly pretty–
[15:47:47] <lakitu> anyway:
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[15:56:44] <lakitu> computer froze
[15:56:48] <lakitu> I was saying:
[15:56:48] *** Server sets mode: +stnRl 40
[15:56:52] <lakitu> computer froze
[15:56:54] <lakitu> I was saying:
[16:00:57] <lakitu> these these mini-espionage subterfuges don’t even have to be about illegal things; you could set up more social happenstance kinds of things, like tell students a teacher had some misfortune, with less empathy it could be mocked, ridiculed, derided, etc; & see who comes over & provides her consolation, & the polar opposite, who scoffs about her suffering
[16:01:21] <lakitu> – her bad luck.
[16:03:49] <lakitu> …all a fiction to cleverly bait more misanthropic citizens of the student body.
[16:04:37] <sol> you planning to hack a school social conscious?
[16:04:42] <lakitu> haha
[16:04:56] <lakitu> –that is maybe the Sol way to say it.
[16:05:13] <sol> bait the school student body?
[16:05:47] <lakitu> did you catch yesterday’s dialogue?
[16:05:53] <sol> nopr
[16:05:55] <sol> nopr
[16:05:57] <lakitu> ah:
[16:06:01] <sol> er nope
[16:06:03] <sol> what was the summary?
[16:06:04] * lakitu reads typoese
[16:06:23] <lakitu> https://joevalentyn.org/press/2021/06/07/that-was-big-of-you-joe-valentyns-idea-for-student-immersion-in-real-world-emergency-testing-of-mettle-conscientiousness-in-classrooms/
[16:06:28] <zhan> “That Was Big Of You!!” ⸻ Joe Valentyn’s Idea For Student Immersion in Real-World Emergency Testing of Mettle & Conscientiousness In Classrooms ⸻ ♡, Joe Valentyn
[16:07:04] <lakitu> that was me trying to title this.
[16:07:13] <sol> that was the topic?
[16:09:20] <lakitu> {14:45:31 pm} <lakitu> but for example, you could write symphonies in school, & still get all F’s. or be the people’s choice for most personable dudette in your school, & not have your report card needle even move at all
[16:09:20] <lakitu> {14:45:49 pm} <lakitu> for scoring, overall
[16:09:20] <lakitu> {14:47:08 pm} <lakitu> you could defend against bullies for special needs kids, the disadvantaged – you might even be WORSE OFF report-card -wise.
[16:09:20] <lakitu> {14:48:36 pm} * lakitu was going to school to be a teacher, but dropped out of college for it…
[16:09:22] <lakitu> {14:50:20 pm} <lakitu> might be a Love genius, they could give you straight C’s. that’s four examples
[16:09:37] <lakitu> {14:54:16 pm} <lakitu> & on that – say you had a “goodness” / being ethical / being moral / etc score: Conscientiousness’s spiritual battle is more like physical education in that you have to actually perform these pull-ups, push-ups, etc – you can’t just tick a box that says “I know to do 10.”
[16:09:37] <lakitu> {14:55:28 pm} <lakitu> you have to perform at being good rather than just in a made up example be able to navigate to the right answer. it takes courage to resist bad influence, etc….
[16:09:40] <lakitu> {14:59:18 pm} <lakitu> like the differencce between ticking a box that says “Write beautiful music.” & writing beautiful music. it takes more than just knowing to do it. actually doing it requires gifts & techniques beyond average ability levels.
[16:09:44] <lakitu> {14:59:29 pm} <lakitu> beyond the average level of abilities.
[16:09:46] <lakitu> {14:59:58 pm} <lakitu> ‘like the difference.*
[16:10:03] <lakitu> especially this:
[16:10:03] <lakitu> {14:54:16 pm} <lakitu> & on that – say you had a “goodness” / being ethical / being moral / etc score: Conscientiousness’s spiritual battle is more like physical education in that you have to actually perform these pull-ups, push-ups, etc – you can’t just tick a box that says “I know to do 10.”
[16:10:03] <lakitu> {14:55:28 pm} <lakitu> you have to perform at being good rather than just in a made up example be able to navigate to the right answer. it takes courage to resist bad influence, etc….
[16:10:05] <lakitu> {14:59:18 pm} <lakitu> like the differencce between ticking a box that says “Write beautiful music.” & writing beautiful music. it takes more than just knowing to do it. actually doing it requires gifts & techniques beyond average ability levels.
[16:10:09] <lakitu> {14:59:29 pm} <lakitu> beyond the average level of abilities.
[16:10:11] <lakitu> {14:59:58 pm} <lakitu> ‘like the difference.*
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[16:10:15] <lakitu> {15:05:54 pm} <lakitu> this is a little b****y of me to recommend, but imagine a school that had drills, except you didn’t know they were drills: e.g. someone has broke in; war has broke out; there was a chemical spill nearby – etc – again, pushing beyond the boundaries here, but: imagine that even teachers weren’t told yet whether it was real or not, & they had a emerge
[16:10:22] <lakitu> {15:05:54 pm} <lakitu> ncy discussion with their class – the brave would be separated from the unbrave, the just from the unjust, etc –
[16:10:25] <lakitu> {15:06:42 pm} <lakitu> & that could tell us– we’d tell them we were testing them afterward– who is really made of mettle.
[16:13:40] <lakitu> (* ‘like tell students.)
[16:17:16] <lakitu> it would be pretty hilarious faking e.g. a graffiti rondezvous that only the guilty party shows up to, armed with spray paint cans, after school out back. just him & the security, etc.
[16:17:40] <lakitu> that’s classic Americana goings-on.
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[16:21:23] <lakitu> with enough ingenuity, you might be able to suss out / deter gangs being joined, etc.
[16:22:30] <BigMick> (+BigMick) Who polices the government, banks and corporations if they ever commit any illegalities and punish them accordingly?
[16:23:25] <lakitu> “Ronnie’s got the coke & the tweens in a building downtown – it’s all free to you if you just show up…” some supposed gang member txt message or whatever.
[16:24:44] <lakitu> – some pseudo gang member txt message.
[16:27:47] <lakitu> (pseudo gang-member txt message.*)
[16:28:39] <lakitu> I wouldn’t be petty with this device, I’ve outlined the last two days. don’t try to catch someone taking a sandwich or something stupid, I guess.
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[16:30:05] <lakitu> there’s a certainly level where trifles are trifles & you don’t need to bring someone to justice for drinking half your soda pop.
[16:30:50] <lakitu> stealing a pencil, under normal circumstances, etc
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[16:31:13] <lakitu> not that many people would do that, but . . .
[16:33:00] <lakitu> (* with this device I’ve outlined the last two days.)
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[16:35:20] <lakitu> * there’s a certain level where trifles are trifles & you don’t need to bring someone to justice for drinking half your soda pop.